Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For Women!

It was 1967 and Kathrine Switzer was the only woman running in the Boston Marathon. Suddenly a race official tried to push her off the track because she was a woman.

Photo of sexism at the running track:
http://www.thefinalsprint.com/images/200 7/04/switzer_boston.jpg

Now when the first viable woman presidential candidate is running in the Democratic race some people are trying to push her out.  For example, Eric Boehlert reported that never in the history of the United has the press ganged up against one candidate to drop out of the race as they have done to Hillary Clinton:
http://mediamatters.org/columns/20080430 0001

"Clinton is being held to a different standard than virtually any other candidate in history," wrote Steven Stark in the Boston Phoenix. "When Clinton is simply doing what everyone else has always done, she's constantly attacked..."

Clinton is also different than any other strong presidential candidate in history: she is a woman.  The press have attacked Clinton with blatant sexism:

Women's Media Center video about sexism against Hillary Clinton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-IrhRSwF 9U

Thus, it is reasonable to assume that at least part of the reason that the media are trying to push HRC out of the race is because of sexism.  But Hillary Clinton, like Switzer, is undaunted.  At a May 16th conference with bloggers she said, "I really appreciate those of you who understand that at the end of the day we've got to win...it is for me all about winning...I believe as the nominee I will win."

Clinton's daughter Chelsea describes how her mother has been running all her life:

After Kathrine Switzer was attacked for running with men she worked to help women racers across the globe:

Women are increasingly being allowed to compete with men and are winning contests.  Recently Danica Patrick made history as the first woman to win an Indy car race.  Women should be allowed to compete with men.  Women have led nations with strength, success and magnificence and we should be allowed to compete with men in a presidential election.  Considering that women have much less political power than men (because of sexism) the press should be cheering on a woman candidate rather than ganging up against her to tell her to drop out of the race or being negative in any other way about her desire to compete to win. However, I and millions of women and men are cheering for Hillary Clinton to win!



Display:


Hillary has forged a path (1.71 / 7)

for women that won't be forgotten.

It is also important to remember that you can't be a champion for women while you are whining about how you have been treated.

It just doesn't cut both ways here.

Do you want to continue this pity party or stand up like a real woman and admit that the longer she stays in this race, radicalizing her supporters the more divided the party becomes.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:34:09 PM EST

When did women like you (1.88 / 9)

begin to think that it wasn't OK to call foul on sexism?  I am absolutely beside myself, jaw on the floor after seeing one woman refer to a front line feminist as a whiner.  Shame.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:55:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When did women like you (2.00 / 4)

Diary is absolutely great, BTW.  

Please recommend, folks.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:06:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Is NOT Whining (2.00 / 3)

And God(dess) dammit neither is anyone who points out the double standards and thw bullshit that have dominated this campaign.

REC THIS BABY UP GANG!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:42:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am a part of the 'gang' (none / 0)

Stand up for women and play the victim at the same time.

Sorry that just doesn't work.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:40:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let me also say, (2.00 / 3)

it's refreshing that the diarist brings cultural references, and the role of Kathrine Switzer.

Women have come a long way.  We shouldn't forget that.


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:08:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When did women like you (2.00 / 3)

It is fair to call a spade a spade, if that's what you see.

However, if you make your candidacy about that when you rather assiduously avoided it earlier, it comes across as a negative.  

My girlfriend, my mother, and most of my female friends do not consider sexism to have been a major issue in this campaign.  They do consider Senator Clinton's willingness to blame basically everything and everyone other than herself or her family for the situation to have been a major issue.

If you want to get past sexism you don't do yourself or your cause much favor if you blame it for things that have far more obvious and compelling explanations.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well (2.00 / 1)

a spade is a spade until someone points out that it just might be a shovel.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When did women like you (2.00 / 1)

Linfar, the problem with women these days is they do not stand up for themselves as a collective group the way that Blacks, Hispanics, or other oppressed or minority groups have. When women stop jumping into the sexist parade of their own, then, you'll stop being the 51% minority. In many ways, the problems that women have today are largely self-inflicted. They allow others to back them down into submission. Until women (as a collective group) begin to realized that their powerful should be heard, you will continue to have these sexist remarks being delineated--even among other women.


by Check077 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Its linc, but no problems! (2.00 / 1)

Linfar and I, when it comes to sexism, agree on a great, great many points- so its a complement.  And, I think you are right on the money.  I think, sometimes it is easier for some folks to ignore sexism and just live the lives they are told to live...


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:10:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When did women like you (2.00 / 1)

Thank you for pointing out that there is a difference, a big difference, between whining and calling foul on sexism!  

If the media had been doing their job, calling the foul that was occurring would not have been necessary.  But the MSM was not, even when bloggers and posters all over the place were pointing it out!  So personally, I was cheering Hillary when she called the debate moderators by pointing out that she was so often called upon with the first questions.  And it should be noted that she even added that she didn't mind being called on first, she was simply pointing it out.  Had ANY male candidate been treated the same way, and made the same point Hillary had, it would have been recognized as exactly that--pointing out something that had become obvious to so many.  But, no, Hillary was quickly referred to as a whining woman for mentioning it by the very commentators who had been presenting her that way and wanted to continue doing so rather than admit they were busted.  

While some may be willing to call a spade a club, it doesn't change the fact that a spade is a spade.  And thankfully some are willing to stand up for that truth, even if forced to begrudgingly.


HRC: "...not a vote to rush to war--it...puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President, we say to him 'Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.'"
by ChargedFan on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary has forged a path (2.00 / 1)

Pity you still don't get it.  

Hillary is standing up.  The way others have stood up before her.

Speaking up is not the same as whining.  As they say, polite women never made history.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:01:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary has forged a path (none / 0)

She stood up, she had EVERY advantage, she was an odds on front runner, but she LOST. She is being called a whiner because she is dishonestly trying every trick in the book to get the rules overturned, including whipping up a froth of indignation over the supposed sexism that she is a victim of.  Well she was the one that ran on an experienced, tough as nails platform - turns out she isn't that tough after all.  She was the high priestess of the DLC boys club, but now everyone is against her because she's a "girl".  Give me a break.  All the successful female leaders that have gone before her would be dismayed at her victimhood - and not one of them would ever have allowed themselves to be called a girl.  


by interestedbystander on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:20:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"You can't be a champion for women (2.00 / 1)

while you are whining about how you have been treated..."

What a ghastly and offensive  over-reach you make here.  I'm dumbfounded.

I guess you would disqualify the entire suffragette movement as whiners along with the entire early feminist movement.  

Pardon me...I have to get back to my pity party.


by Radiowalla on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:28:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Aghast as I am (none / 0)

that a champion and whining don't go hand in hand.

I will let you be woman at the pity party.

Champions look at the merits, without sniveling.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

She's forged a path for white women. Period. I am sick and tired of this nonsense about her representing all women. She simply does not.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:39:10 PM EST

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (none / 0)

Hillary only cares about one person... herself!

Mother Teresa has done more for woman than this politician.


I would say at this point we're starting to see a little desperation on the part of the woman who I support... NY Governor Paterson
by obamaovermccain on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 5)

Mother Theresa was an admirable woman who did much for many.  She would not appreciate your BS hyperbole about another who has done much for many.  You people who keep repeating this line

"Hillary only cares about one person...herself!"

really don't know wtf you are talking about.  Kind of makes you look just dumb and mean ~ like some twit school kid.


by Mags on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:01:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (1.50 / 4)

What has Hillary done for all women? Please explain? I don't recall smearing your husband's mistresses something to be proud of. Hillary and the over 50 white women are all about themselves. They become partners at law firms by acting like white men and ignoring minority attorneys. They climb there way to the top by being like white men but at the same time crying gender.  What about the rest of us?


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

You're very bitter.  I'm sorry.  


by Mags on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:06:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 4)

No, I'm black and know what this country is all about.  It is very typical for whites to dismiss us as always being bitter without understanding what we experience in life. I'm being a realist. If you want to consider that as bitterness, be my guest.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:11:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (1.66 / 3)

Hillary is famous for her work with women rights all over the world.

perhaps you need to do some google'ing and educate yourself, because your hate speech is just showing your lack of education.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 2)

Don't need to google at all. I know what she has done and all I can say is, so what?


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 2)

so what?  Ok - whatever.  The other poster pegged you correctly.

You don't care about women rights and women all over the world.  Just in your narrow prism.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:18:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (none / 0)

A few months ago the line was that HRC gave a speech on women's rights in Beijing.

But the Clinton state dept didn't do much for women. I was a part of feminist groups who begged them to take a stand on the treatment of women and girls under the Taliban in Afghanistan. They never did a thing, never spoke out.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:24:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As an over 50 white woman (none / 0)

I have one thing to say to you:  buzz off!  I'm sick and tired of your insults.  


by Radiowalla on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As an over 50 white woman (2.00 / 1)

Respectfully, can you at least see why a younger woman, or one who is not white, may not be as enamoured of Senator Clinton's record on these issues?

I'm not trolling and I'm not attacking.  I'm honestly curious.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:43:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am not unwilling to listen (2.00 / 2)

to other opinions, but I AM unwilling to be race-baited and insulted.    

Furthermore, there is nothing at all to complain about Senator Clinton's record on women's rights.  She has been in there fighting all along.


by Radiowalla on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:50:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am not unwilling to listen (2.00 / 2)

That is exactly the response that I expect. White women(mostly over 50) can only respond that way by attacking blacks and calling us race baiters when we are in fact point out what has gone on. I expect you to be angry and frustrated because it is very hard to take a look at yourself without the blinders and fluff. It's ugly but it is the truth.

I no longer worry about the bitter or race baiting comments thrown my way because the truth and history is on my side.  


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:56:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not only are you (2.00 / 2)

a race-baiter, but you are a condescending one at that.

Good-bye.


by Radiowalla on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am not unwilling to listen (none / 0)

First of all you are very rude and disrespectful. Second of all, your signature is despicable and abhoring.

How will you feel when you read this - Only in America can an inexperienced man be given a pass because he is a black man.

Or only in American can a black man freely say G.D. America?

The above statements are disgustful, just like your signature.

Applying historical injustice to present day people is bitterness or clinging to bitterness.

Respect America because it has given you the freedom which many in the world dream for. Look at the bright side of things.


by Sandeep on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:54:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am not unwilling to listen (none / 0)

Yeah sweet potato pie! Why don't you respect America for no longer enslaving people based on the color of their skin and giving you freedom?  Sounds like Sandeep has some interesting ideas about what a black man can and cannot do in America.

Good to see we've come to this.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Sun May 25, 2008 at 07:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am not unwilling to listen (2.00 / 1)

I think the adjective about the sig line you were struggling to find was 'abhorrent'.

To be fair, I find it pretty abhorrent that you're all piling on the commenter, and her opinion that Hillary doesn't represent black women. This is a valid if contentious opinion, but no more abhorrent than others I have seen regularly expressed on this site.

You guys sound bullying. I hope some of the professed feminists round here will tell you to lay off your sexist behavior.

On the other hand, when people made disgusting sexist comments about Michelle Obama, I've seen them mojo'ed by many Hillary supporters.

Feminism that is applied selectively to one candidate is a betrayal of feminist principles.


by duende on Sun May 25, 2008 at 07:28:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

Council at Beijing: "Women's rights are human rights speech"  That speech was not about women just in the USA but women world wide.

Worked with Patty Murray on Plan B acceptance by the FDA, something that benefits all women of reproductive age.

Helped found Vital Voices:
http://www.vitalvoices.org/desktopdefaul t.aspx?page_id=305

You will notice that Vital Voices is active in Africa, fostering women's initiatives and political advancement.  You think all of them are white?
http://www.vitalvoices.org/desktopdefaul t.aspx?page_id=558

Dodd Clinton Amendment to extend Family and Medical Benefits for Military Families (which if you look at the composition of the US military, is not primarily white)
http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/news/stat ements/details.cfm?id=284525

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/ giving_hillary_credit_for_schip.html
Hillary was an important part of the creation of SCHIP

Factcheck examined claims by some people that Hillary was not important for SCHIP and concluded:

"We review the record and conclude that she deserves plenty of credit, both for the passage of the SCHIP legislation and for pushing outreach efforts to translate the law into reality."

Needless to say, SCHIP is aimed at lower income families and children without respect to their race.

While Clinton may have claimed more credit than she deserves, she still deserves plenty of credit for advocating for women and children world wide.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (1.66 / 3)

And your authority for saying that is?

Oh, I know, yourself, Obama campaign and MSM.  

It's a new variation of "Hillary is too ambitious" crap.

And Obama is different and has done more than Mother Teresa, how?


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:03:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mother Theresa (none / 0)

was against a woman's right to make her own reproductive choices.


by Radiowalla on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:38:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mother Theresa (none / 0)

As are all devout Catholics. It's one of the tenets of the faith.


by edg1 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:10:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Right (none / 0)

but let's not applaud her as someone who has done a lot for women.


by Radiowalla on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What!!! (none / 0)

Now you're throwing Mother Theresa under the bus? Well, I suppose it was evil of her that she focused her life on poor women and poor children and poor men, when she could have focused on the women's rights movement.


by edg1 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 06:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What!!! (none / 0)

"I think that today peace is threatened by abortion, too, which is a true war, a direct killing of a child by its own mother . . . . Today, abortion is the worst evil, and the greatest enemy of peace . . . . Because if a mother can kill her own child, what will prevent us from killing ourselves, or one another? Nothing."

Mother Teresa, 1979

She worked very hard to help dying poor people, but was no advocate of reproductive health (or doing anything to alleviate poverty, for that matter).  Just a fact, not "throwing her under the bus".


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Sun May 25, 2008 at 07:26:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What!!! (none / 0)

She was a Catholic nun. It's a job requirement to NOT advocate abortion or birth control. And the work she did do with poor people in India was more than enough to keep her busy 18 hours a day 7 days a week.


by edg1 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 11:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What!!! (none / 0)

Okay yep you're correct of course.  I think we're in complete agreement.  She hated and birth control.  I don't think we disagree.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Fri May 30, 2008 at 11:42:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

wow.  


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:53:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 2)

It's the truth. The whole feminist movement has always been about white women. Their actions during this primary is just reinforcing what most women of color thought of them. They only care about themselves and everyone else be damnned.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 3)

sweet potato pie is right about this, if you look at the second wave movement of the late sixties and seventies. They also called lesbians the "lavender menace" back then. The feminist movement of that time had good goals but some truly bad ways of achieving them, at the expense of making a color and sex-blind coalition.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 3)

potato pie is not correct, as she stated the "whole" feminist movement, which goes back more than the 1960's and 1970's.

and even then, yes, AA women were involved in the feminist movements in 60/70's


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

You can try to discredit me if you want. You are the one that is wrong here. I am black who is on my way to being an attorney and is the daughter of a professional black women who can attest to the so-called feminist movement that was really the white women's movement.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

You know what?  You just explained yourself.

and yes, just because some AA women didn't benefit from the feminist movement doesn't mean that all of them didn't benefit.

you are looking thru the prism thru your eyes, not the bigger picture.  And yes, you are wrong.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:18:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (none / 0)

Some AA women? Please start naming those that have benefited from it.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

every AA woman who won a seat in politics befitted from the feminist movement.  


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

Ha! If you think that was because of the feminist movement, you are sadly mistaken.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

The feminist movement shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as the civil rights movement if you're talking about what helped get black women into elected positions of power.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:26:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 2)

the civil rights and feminist movement went hand in hand in the 1960's and 1970's.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:27:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 2)

No it did not. Take off your blinders and realize that those were two separate movements.  


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:40:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

try understanding what "hand-in-hand" means.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A (none / 0)

That is not at all my understanding of the issue, and frankly it ignores issues of class at least as much as those of race.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:44:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

That's true.  The following view of African American women was not unusual in the civil rights movement:

One of the Black Panther leaders, when asked about the proper position of women in the Black Panther Party replied something like "supine" or "flat on her back".  Huey Newton I think, it was?


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Sun May 25, 2008 at 05:11:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 2)

Ms. Attorney: You may want go to Wikipedia and look upt these particular individuals names, particularly Dorothy Height and several past congressional women.

Height, Dorothy. Open Wide the Freedom Gates: A Memoir.

Tracey A. Fitzgerald, The National Council of Negro Women and the Feminist Movement, 1935-1975, Georgetown University Press, 1985.

Judith Weisenfeld, "Dorothy Height", Black Women in America: Profiles, MacMillan Library Reference USA, New York, 1999, pp. 128-130.


by Check077 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (none / 0)

I'm also going to still assume that you are white.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 2)

Do some reading.

Throughout much of its history, most of the leaders of feminist social and political movements, as well as many feminist theorists, have been predominantly middle-class white women from western Europe and North America. However, at least since Sojourner Truth's 1851 speech to US Feminists, women of other races have proposed alternative feminisms. This trend accelerated in the 1960s with the Civil Rights movement in the United States and the collapse of European colonialism in Africa, the Caribbean, parts of Latin America and Southeast Asia. Since that time, women in former European colonies and the Third World have proposed alternative "post-colonial" and "Third World" feminisms as well.[14] Some Postcolonial feminists, such as Chandra Talpade Mohanty, are critical of Western feminism for being ethnocentric.[15] Black feminists, such as Angela Davis and Alice Walker, share this view.[16]


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:21:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (none / 0)

oh BS.
 
by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:08:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Rodham Clinton: Forging A New Path For (2.00 / 1)

???


by Mags on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:54:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you always make such race based assumptions (2.00 / 3)

or is it that we have some sort of cosmic connection and I am just destined to happen upon them as you make them?


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you always make such race based assumptions (2.00 / 5)

Of course, it's not PC to point out the percentage of the vote of AA that Obama gets.  

simpler version: it's OK that my voters vote for me for whatever reasons.  your voters have dirty motives.


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you always make such race based assumptions (2.00 / 2)

the poster in question seems to be a determined race-baiter...


by zerosumgame on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:06:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That (2.00 / 1)

is the nice way of putting it.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 3)

You two are rich. A black woman calls you out on the fact that no, the feminist movement wasn't color-blind and still isn't, and you call her a race-bater. You're proving her damn point.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 1)

Thank you upstate girl. I wish I could rec/rate but I can't. This is exactly what I am talking about. They don't like being called out because they just can't handle the truth. In order for them to understand what has gone on in terms of feminism would require them to have to take a look at themselves and it wouldn't be pretty.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 1)

Thankfully I have a feminist mother, white, who was deeply involved in the civil rights movement and has been calling these insular white women out for years on their hypocrisy and latent racism. The feminist movement in the 70's was all about white heterosexual women. Thankfully that attitude and that movement has splintered out into dozens of other movements all under the general banner of equality for all.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:30:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um (2.00 / 2)

one of those splinter movements, probably the oldest of them, is called black feminism colloquially.  Its based on the premise that racism and feminism are the same damn thing- its about dichotomy and manufactured roles- it speaks very poorly of the type of 'feminism' that this commenter is going on about- one that pits the disenfranchised 'other' against each other.  Its backwards, its selfish, and it is ignorant, imo.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:50:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um (none / 0)

LOL. That's all I can do. What is the point of going  back and forth with you? You are obviously a white women over 40 and it explains it all.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:52:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am a gay (2.00 / 3)

male in my mid twenties, if you must know.  But please, please don't let me stop you with you gross generalizations and your own prejudices.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:56:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am a gay (2.00 / 1)

Doing better than the average black person. Yes, that's right, a gay white person is better off than ANY black person.

I'll wait for you to cry foul.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am done with you (2.00 / 3)

you are insulting and you have no argument other than the childish- 'i've got it worse than you, b.s.'.  I would say, after you last comment, that you know absolutely jack about any sort of feminism other than your own self interest.  Peace out.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:06:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am done with you (2.00 / 1)

Bye. I do know far more than you do about being a black, professional woman and all the crap I go through each and every single day because of my race.

Yes, I'm sure you experience discrmination as a gay person but unlike you, the first thing people see is that I am black and things just immediately go downhill from there.  Unless you have lived in my shoes, you have no right to tell me what I do and do not know about so-called feminism.

Peace out to you too.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:09:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are right, I don't have that right (2.00 / 2)

but that's all my original point was anyway- none of us have that right, to make any sort of assumptions about each other- we should not be generalizing based on color or sex or identity, it helps none of us.


Here are a couple... on point quotes from the great Audre Lorde, she is a heroine mine...


"If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive."


"It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept, and celebrate those differences."
by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:24:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am a gay (none / 0)

So Mathew Sheppard was better off being nailed to a board than Billionarie Oprah Winfrey, or Secretary of State Condi Rice?


by Mayor McCheese on Tue May 27, 2008 at 06:07:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know what movement you are talking about (2.00 / 1)

but apparently it doesn't include Bell Hooks or Audre Lorde or Hill-Collins or Maya Angelou- just for starters.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't know what movement you are talking abo (2.00 / 1)

Also, what is wrong with you? Maya Angelou was not part of the feminist movement. I mean do you know anything about her? I do and am good family friends with her son Guy and his wife Stephanie.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:58:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So (2.00 / 1)

she isn't a feminist because she wasn't part of the 'movement'?  I don't know about you, but her writings sure do speak to my feminism...  All of the struggles in her life, all of the times that she broke free... from the cage and kept singing- I can't think of another poet that exemplifies feminism more- at least not a commonly recognizable one...  Through her writings, she is the perfect example of the 'black feminist' movement.


Good for you for knowing her and/or her kids, I am sure they are lovely people.
by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (1.00 / 2)

Bro's before Ho's.

nuff said


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:27:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 1)

What the fuck are you trying to say with this insightful little gem?


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 2)

that insightful gem was a T-shirt that Obama supporters had made up to support their candidate.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:32:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 1)

And? Your point for posting it here is? What does that have to do with the Obama campaign, or the Clinton campaign? Some idiot bar owner put a monkey on an Obama shirt - am I going to post that here to make some kind of point against you? No, because its stupid.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:33:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 1)

because you have fell into the mindset that white women are bastards that don't give a shit about other women, regardless of their race or religion or sexual orientation.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:34:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 1)

Now you can read my mind? There is legitimate record for the feminist movement being non-inclusive to women of color and lesbians and sorry, that's fact. Keep self-victimizing, that's exactly what splintered the feminist movement off into groups that promote equality for all in the first place.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you've never seen this? (2.00 / 1)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I see it...and it has nothing to do (2.00 / 1)

with Obama, any more than the various amounts of racist garbage peddled here, at NQ, and at H44 have anything to do with Hillary.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:34:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you've never seen this? (none / 0)

Here, let me post the Curious George monkey/Obama shirt and we're equal.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you've never seen this? (2.00 / 2)

did that come from Hillary supporters or the republicans?

Because I believe it came from a republican.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are (2.00 / 3)

right.  If it had come from Hillary supporters, then Obama supporters would be justified in lumping republicans and this half of the democratic party in the same group... but, no, sadly for them, its just not the case.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:00:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you've never seen this? (2.00 / 2)

equally as disgusting.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you've never seen this? (none / 0)

Why would somebody mojo this?


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:05:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good question.... (none / 0)

here is hoping that its for showing it to the poster that didnt know?  otherwise - its v. strange.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 1)

Wow, you managed to lower my opinion of your posts here.  Bravo.

Does it occur to you that many of us who prefer Senator Obama over Senator Clinton do so for reasons wholly divorced from race and gender?

Could you please not implicitly call all of us sexists?  Its maddening, and it is wrong.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:46:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (none / 0)

probably about the same time the tossing of the racist-bomb stops coming towards HRC every 5 minutes


by zerosumgame on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:58:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol!!! (2.00 / 1)

AT YOU!

Racist bombs against Hillary !?!?!?

LOL!

You're special zero.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (2.00 / 1)

I was reading this thread (great debate by the way) and was agreeing with alot of you what have to say colebiancardi.

That's why I dont' understand what the purpose of this post is?

Bro's before Ho's? Obama supporters? You want me to judge you by what is written in Hillaryis44? This makes no sense.

It completely turned me off whatever you were saying.


Welcome to a landslide WITH white working class, latinos, women and holding on sweeties!!!
by spacemanspiff on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That (none / 0)

sorry about that - I am tired of people who try to state one -ism is worse than the other, or that women, regardless of race, religion or sexual orientation, can and do work together on the feminist movement (men as well)

I just pointed out that "some", not all, Obama supporters put out that infamous T-shirt, which kinda summed up my impression of a poster here.


by colebiancardi on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:57:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

calls me out on what exactly? (2.00 / 2)

the only comments I have seen have been both racist and degrading to women.  I especially love the one down thread that states that HRC is in her position because she is a white woman.  I just have to give my mother a call and let her know that because she is a white woman, she can run for President whenever the fuck she feels like it.


The commenter in reference has a terrible track record and I prove no point of the commenter's because I think the commenter has no point other than to spread some hate and self loathing.  
by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um...she CAN run whenever. (2.00 / 1)

But you can sure as hell bet she'd be pushed out of any race she ran after losing twelve states in a row.

Unless she were the wife of a former president, anyway.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fine, make that statement (none / 0)

but that is not what the original commenter was saying.


by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then why did you bring it up? (2.00 / 1)

You were the one who implied your mom couldn't run for president.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You need to do one of two things (none / 0)

read the entire thread so that you can be aware that the point I was taking issue with was the racist(white)/sexist(woman) one.  You can talk about the circumstances of Hillary's proximity to power all you want, I am talking about sexism and racism.


The other thing you can do, if you are unwilling to do the above, is butt out.
by linc on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ad-homs in place of substance. (2.00 / 1)

I read the thread. Hillary didn't lose because of sexism; she lost because she ran an awful campaign. Save the faux outrage for the next Obama "gaffe"; this is just silly.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:49:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You need to do one of two things (2.00 / 1)

firewall is just a troll, don't feed it :)


by zerosumgame on Sun May 25, 2008 at 04:00:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: calls me out on what exactly? (2.00 / 1)

The only caveat I would add to her statement is that in a race against a black man, the white woman can and will get the institutional advantage - especially when they share their last name with a former President. Maybe your mom could marry one Ron Reagan and she'd be closer to Clinton's starting line.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:32:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are in denial (2.00 / 1)

especially love the one down thread that states that HRC is in her position because she is a white woman.

She is in this position because she is a white woman and her last name is Clinton. To ignore this fact is to ignore the history of America in which white men have been at the top followed by white women and then everyone else is at the bottom.  Hillary is where she is because she is married to Bill and she got to where she is because she is white. How many black people do you know that grew up in the tony suburbs of Chicago, had a father who was an executive and got to attend an Ivy league school?  I'm just asking.

You can say that I have a terrible track record because it is the truth.  The fact that you are so quick to attack me proves my point about so-called feminist white women.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are in denial (none / 0)

Thanks for braving the storm here, and speaking the truth as you see it. Your exchange with some of the people on this thread has opened my eyes. That they claim to be feminists, and then attack your valid experience, is eye-wateringly hypocritical. And I had a hard time not trolling the 'race-baiter' accusation.

But these are the dead enders of a lost cause, and you're on the side of right. There's no point.

Kudos to you though. And keep posting. I'm learning.


by duende on Sun May 25, 2008 at 07:37:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 2)

She didn't win - that's all that happened. When will  you accept that? As a woman I don't like to see women being poor sports when they have lost. That makes it look like women aren't ready to be treated like responsible parties. I would have liked to see her quit gracefully just as anyone else would have by now. Obama would have been gone a long time ago if the situation was reversed.


by Becky G on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:40:47 PM EST

Re: (2.00 / 2)

What part exactly do you not get?  This is the only time that anyone has been badgerd to drop out of a primary race and this is the closest primary contest! Did you not read the diary?


by Mags on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:56:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It doesn't matter. (none / 0)

It's mathematically impossible for her to win.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun May 25, 2008 at 02:59:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It doesn't matter. (2.00 / 1)

It matters!  These pervasive attitudes matter.


by Mags on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It doesn't matter. (none / 0)

If John Edwards was in this place or even Obama himself, the cries would have been so loud for them to drop out. Hillary is getting this special treatment because she is a Clinton and a white woman. Period.  

Can you imagine if Barack Obama was behind by 100 delegates or had lost 11 straight contests in a row and was 20 million in debt?  People would have been all over him to get out and would have called him every name in the book.

Oh the things that blacks have to prove. I experience it every day in my life.


by sweet potato pie on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It doesn't matter. (none / 0)

I agree with you. And Obama knew it was going to have to be this way.

The first black candidate couldn't be just good enough - he would have to be the best. My mom - 60 year old white woman, marched in the movement - she knew it and she warned me when it started to rear its ugly head.

He will make it. He is the best - a gifted leader and an inspiring voice. This too will pass - a wrenching rebirth of feminism and racial equality in this country that has been a long time coming. Obama knew the gauntlet that lay before him when he started to run and he has the best in the business backing him up to get him through. He will make it. And America will be better, and stronger, for it.


by upstate girl on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:11:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It doesn't matter. (2.00 / 1)

Take your own advice and stop whining.  

Your candidate has a billion dollar press industry behind him.  You are still whining.  


I have yet to see what [Obama] has done to take the highest office in the land. He is no Martin Luther King. --Helen Thomas
by ghost 2 on Sun May 25, 2008 at 03:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]