An Even Bigger Reason to Coalesce

Disclaimer: I want to say that I absolutely AM NOT making any comments about posters over here.  Not even the strongest Hillary supporters do what is being done at hillaryis44.

There was some talk in one of front page threads about hillaryis44 and, while I have been there before, I hadn't been since Tuesday.  I knew that they probably hadn't ended the campaign but I was also curious as to see how exactly they were reacting.  

I mean this as no knock on Hillary supporters: Those comments scare the daylights out of me.  

I can respect not wanting to vote for Obama because you thought that Hillary > McCain > Obama.  Absolutely your prerogative to think so for a number of reasons.  

I can even respect the idea that "it's not over until Denver and until then, I'll fight for Hillary."

But, they are actually rallying to sabotage Obama's campaign, not because they support McCain, but because they HATE Obama.  Not everybody over there, but there are certainly a lot of them.  As far as I can tell, they don't like McCain at all.  Their speech doesn't bother me nearly as much as how far they are willing to take this: people talking about donating money to McCain, making movies about the "truth about Obama," and I think it extended to throwing support for Kerry's opponent Ed O'Reilly.  Also, they kept saying "Play the tape!"  Is there really a bad Obama tape floating around?  Is there any proof of its existence?  

What bothers me is that their devotion and numbers could actually allow them to make waves.  I'd almost have admiration for such a cause if it wasn't derived from so much hate.  But, it actually doesn't take a lot of resources to affect a campaign, as the Swiftboaters showed in 2004.  Any enterprising financier could inject some money into this group and - I shudder to think.

But this isn't a hit piece on Hillary supporters.  This fringe group probably makes up a miniscule percentage of Hillary supporters (but they still constitute a large enough number to create problems). I'm not even directing this at people that want to sit this campaign out or want to write in Hillary or vote for McCain.  

I just wanted to give everybody even more of a reason to close ranks and fight for unity.  This campaign is going to be extremely tough as we fend off the Republican machine and this newly created spurned faction.  The slams are going to be coming from all sides.  The way I see it, Obama supporters need to do their absolute best at reaching out to any Hillary supporters who are willing to fight for Obama.  

I feel like, until the VP is chosen, there is going to be this underlying tension between the groups but we cannot let it lead to more bickering.  Trust me, I take my own advice from here on out.  I'm playing super nice with everybody I talk to here.  It shouldn't be that hard - I have lots of respect for Clinton and I think she would have been the nominee (and a good one) any other year.  I also think she would make a fine president.  And, I don't think that many Obama supporters disagree with that notion.  Maybe we just don't say it enough.

We just cannot afford to lose people to hillaryis44 and similar websites.  Even the strongest Hillary supporters on this site have to recognize that no good comes from what they are trying to accomplish.  Plans of picking a candidate you don't like because you think your candidate has a better shot in 2012 just don't work out.  And, as much as you guys hate Obama supporters, I don't think Obama has done anything so bad to deserve this much hate.  



Display:


Remember, the people who populate (2.00 / 3)

H44 and No Quarter aren't nearly as pro-Clinton as they are anti-Obama. It's sort of like...sure, they'd like Clinton to win, but they really don't want Obama to win. For such people, supporting McCain is a natural progression, as they were never really looking for a Democratic presidency as much as they were looking for a No Obama presidency.

But yes, we do have to push back.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:54:03 PM EST

Re: Remember, the people who populate (2.00 / 2)

H44 and No Quarter aren't nearly as pro-Clinton as they are anti-Obama.

ding ding ding!

They can pretend otherwise for a couple more days, but once Hillary takes the stage and throws her support behind Barack, well we shall see.

Will they follow their candidate's leadership?  Or will they throw Hillary under the bus?  


by neonplaque on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:58:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Remember, the people who populate (none / 0)

While that may well be true, it is simply the equivalent of the ABH crowd that was so vocal over at the orange site early on.

There's no good from either side, and neither side can claim a 'higher' moral ground on this, because for every Larry Johnson there is a Bob Johnson.

Yes, we all have to 'push back', but some folks migh not push as hard remembering how others upheld the ABH crowd in the beginning.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:52:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Remember, the people who populate (none / 0)

If you ask me, those people weren't nearly as Pro Hillary as they were Pro McCain to begin with, and were hoping that Hillary would get the nod, so they could go about trying to beat her in November.

Think Op Chaos.


"More War Years! More War Years!" ~John McCain
by Tommy Flanagan on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Even Bigger Reason to Coalesce (2.00 / 3)

Don't sweat it - the His44 crowd are nuts and can't be reached, but they are a small minority.  They will become increasingly irrelevant - just enjoy watching their heads explode as Obama pulls ahead.


by interestedbystander on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:58:03 PM EST

Re: An Even Bigger Reason to Coalesce (none / 0)

You mean pulls further ahead!


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:58:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Disappointment can turn to an obsession (none / 0)

I can see some folks supporting McCain over Obama based on his far greater experience.  For me this is a false support, as you have to look at what someone has done with their experience - in McCain's case, not much.

But to morph resentment and disappointment into hate is bizarre and irrational.   Do the New England Patriots players and fans "hate" the New York Giants for wrecking their perfect season?  I really doubt it.  

Obama won.  Straightforward.   It was very, very close, but he won.   Can we be disappointed?  Yes.  Can some who genuinely believe that McCain is a better candidate than Obama vote McCain?  Sure, no problem with that, just as some Romney supporters would now vote Obama.  But let's not set out to sabotage our own party!


by activatedbybush on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:59:43 PM EST

Re: Disappointment can turn to an obsession (2.00 / 1)

Do the New England Patriots players and fans "hate" the New York Giants for wrecking their perfect season?

Well a little bit :)


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:05:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disappointment can turn to an obsession (none / 0)

Well I know at least one Boston Red Sox fan who deeply hated the Yankees for years and years. And still does.


by Grassroots Mom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:06:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Get used to it (2.00 / 3)

This is the nature of free speech and politics. Obama will be opposed for a multitude of reasons... some rational, some irrational. There will be hate sites and attacks which are not based in reality. Get used to that right now. The goal is to minimize it and push back at it but you will never get rid of it entirely so don't even try.

My advice... ignore it, move on... put your energy into promoting Obama and defeating McCain.

If this makes you feel any better:
I was at Hillary's rally here in NYC on Tuesday... surrounded by her most ardent supporters and backers. There was plenty of time to talk while we were all waiting to get in and waiting for her to speak. I spoke to probably 100 different people at length. There was anger and sadness and exhaustion and frustration... lots of people with little enthusiasm for Obama... but I heard maybe 3 people say they wouldn't vote for Obama and would write in Hillary's name instead. I didn't talk to a single person who would vote for McCain.


"Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been." Hillary Rodham Clinton - June 7, 2008
by twinmom on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 12:59:54 PM EST

Re: An Even Bigger Reason to Coalesce (none / 0)

Speaking of Hillaryis44...

Have you seen Universal's videos?  

http://www.villarrealsports.com/phpBB2/i ndex.php

Like spandex much?


John McCain smells like mothballs.
by asherrem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:03:07 PM EST

you can bite me (none / 0)

for posting those.

dear lord.


by Slim Tyranny on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you can bite me (none / 0)

I don't want to bite you.

I checked out Hillayis44 to see what this was about (gross), Universal had a link to his website where he's gonna make some "super awesome video"...and there they were.

This is what we're "fighting against" here.  Not much if you ask me.


John McCain smells like mothballs.
by asherrem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LMAO, are you serious, (none / 0)

is that really Universal?? Hahaha, totally gross outfit!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:41:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LMAO, are you serious, (none / 0)

Yep.  Plum smugglers are HAWT.

After seeing his videos, somehow I'm just not worried.  


John McCain smells like mothballs.
by asherrem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LMAO, are you serious, (none / 0)

heh.  That's actually Universal's brother, John.

For giggles, check out his MySpace page.  Try VERY HARD not to pee yourself laughing.

Well, what can I say I am a interesting person. My IQ is 174 (super genius) - but you could never tell from looking at me (is that good or bad?). I am a national to world-class athlete in three sports (lifting, wrestling, & judo) - but I live a really active business and personal life. I am also 2-3 times stronger genetically than a normal man without doing anything (obivously stronger when I train).

His personal chest pumping website is also a riot.

See him get completely owned in the comments at Dealbreaker (some kind of Wall Street site).  Funny as hell.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LMAO, are you serious, (2.00 / 1)

Wow.  I really really hope he's not serious.

And yes, I did pee, but just a little (I've had four kids, what?).  You gotta love myspace.


John McCain smells like mothballs.
by asherrem on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:40:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LMAO, are you serious, (none / 0)

Sadly, I think its completely serious.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's the funniest (2.00 / 1)

thing I've seen in a really long time... which is pitiful in and of itself.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 03:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LMAO, are you serious, (none / 0)

And this genius/world-class athlete/superman apparently hangs out in Wilkes-Barre, PA. I guess I missed one of their biggest exhibits the last time I drove through.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:13:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Even Bigger Reason to Coalesce (none / 0)

Universal and his brother are utterly bonkers.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Even Bigger Reason to Coalesce (2.00 / 1)

a lot of people vote for the other person, even if they don't like that person, just because they loathe the opposition.

happens all the time.  GWB wasn't THAT popular in 2004, yet some people loathed Kerry so much that they didn't want Kerry to win; hence their vote for GWB

I am not saying it is sound judgment, but it is nothing new.


by colebiancardi on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:03:24 PM EST

Re: The Whitey Tape (2.00 / 1)

I know a number of MyDDers loath going over to Dkos, but there's a good diary up there about the invisible "Whitey Tape"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/6/1 23441/5219/827/531074


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:08:25 PM EST

Re: The Whitey Tape (none / 0)

I think the 'whitey' tape might be somewhere in a box with the proof that Hillary made Obama's skin darker on video.

Both are outrageous claims and had no place in either camp.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:07:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Whitey Tape (none / 0)

Both are outrageous claims and had no place in either camp.

I never bought into this one either.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 02:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: An Even Bigger Reason to Coalesce (2.00 / 1)

These people crop up during every election.  One of the funniest things about the Hillary is 44 folk is that their vitriol is so reminiscent of the the abuse heaped on the Clintons when he took first office.  Will this have any effect?  Who knows?  

Presidential elections, though, are usually decided by actions of the thirty or so million voters who are in the middle.  The hard core folk on all sides just don't have the numbers going for them.

Consider: in 2004 the Democrats were harboring one of the biggest political grudges in modern history (what had happened to Gore in Florida in 2000), and they still weren't able to win because they weren't able to convince voters in the middle to share their outrage (and I say that as someone who wishes this had occurred but it didn't).

The 2008 election might be similar those run in 1980 and 1992 in this respect: there is a significant share of the electorate this year who think that they're not being represented well by the two parties, and many of these voters might look to the smaller parties for alternatives (for all the acrimony of this primary I think this fits into a bigger picture).

So you'll have Nader, Cynthia McKinney and the Greens, Bob Barr and the libertarians, who knows what Ron Paul is going to do, and the Hillary is 44 folk, I suspect, will join their ranks (without their being one candidate who benefits from all of this content, the way John Anderson did in '80 and Ross Perot did in '92).

And here's the odd thing: come November, I have a feeling that Bob Barr and the libertarians might actually turn out to be the most significant of these protest candidates (because while there is no denying the heat generated by this Democratic party, this story has shifted attention away from the real discontent which exists within Republican ranks, McCain doesn't inspire the same level of personal animosity but there are plenty of conservatives who consider him a total sell-out to their principles, and I think that's going to manifest itself in some way).

So who knows?  It's the nutty primary.  


by IncognitoErgoSum on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 01:37:17 PM EST


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